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lordnikon
rank 47
Posted:
Sun Sep 12, 2004 6:29 pm
quote : #1
profile : pm
Posts: 1630
Type: NTSC-U/C
Ok, this is a hypothesis of mine and should be taken for nothing more or less than what it is. Meaning take it with a grain of salt. It is a rather convincing theory though, so here goes...

Nintendo so far has released 3 LAN compatible games. Even by releasing these games they envisioned this NOT as a form of networking. They instead viewed this as 'connectivity'. They just happened to be using the BBA and a standard ethernet cable to perform this. However they in a sense lied to themselves. No matter how much they wanted to think it was merly 'connectivity'. It wasn't. It was networking consoles over a Local Area Network using standard network protocols.

Nintendo has a huge policy now about staying far away from online gaming with the Nintendo gamecube. They don't even want their system being marketed as an online system, mainly because it would appear OBVIOUSLY obsolete in terms of available online software. They want to stay far far away from online gaming, from a business standpoint.

Nintendo advertised at E3 2003 that StarFox would have LAN capabilities and it's multiplayer experience stressed heavily.

Warppipe gets released and now all 3 LAN games released for the gamecube can be tunneled over the internet and are all declared as being pseudo online games.

E3 2004 ... mentions of LAN for Starfox are nowhere to be found. Why?

If Nintendo releases StarFox with LAN capabilities, no matter how hard they try they will not be able to advertise the game as having 'connectivity' features. Instead it will be known all over the internet that another GC LAN game has been released and you can tunnel it ONLINE.

So, the interesting thing about all this is, the release of tunneling software such as warppipe actually caused a complete halt in GC LAN capabilities. What's even worse is recently a very large petition was setup to try to get StarFox to go LAN. This was propetuated by warppipe and a variety of other websites. The problem is they didn't stress to Nintendo they wanted StarFox to be LAN so they could take advantage of Connectivity. Instead they came right out and said to Nintendo's faces "Make StarFox LAN so we can play it ONLINE!" And they even mentioned warppipe as one of the software products used to accomplish this. (bad idea)

All things being said, things wouldn't have turned out any different. People would have innevitably tunneled these games unless nintendo had put some sort of wierd restrictions in place. So the communities tinkering actually prevented more LAN games from getting released. The only way more LAN games would have gotten released, is if there was some sort of global underground consipiracy to develop the tunneling software without tiping it off to nintendo that users are eyeing their LAN games as online games instead of connectivity. But that is a fairy tale scenario.

So that's my theory. At the moment I am pretty darn certain no more LAN games will be coming to the nintendo gamecube. However I am very thankfull that for a brief period of time the idea of LANing games on the gamecube intrigued nintendo, and thus we were blessed with 3 LAN compatible cube games.
  _________________
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osx089
rank 7
Posted:
Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:05 pm
quote : #2
profile : pm
Posts: 52
thats a very good theory lordnikon, but i refuse to think that nintendo would release a modem (56k) for only one game series, and at that time, only one game. i hope that there will be other games, like homeland, that will hit us state side.

nintendo is smart about business, thats why they have lasted all this time. i wonder if nintendo is using the gcn as a test drive for the next system. i wonder if they are taking precautions so that when the next system comes out, it will be launched w/ a bunch of online games and nintendo can truely prosper over microsoft and sony. thats the only reason i can think of for why they released the modem.

and about the broadband adapter.... i agree with you, i think that nintendo wanted us to use it for connectivity. but now that their visions of connectivity have been changed to realitites of online game play by companies like warp pipe, they are going to be hesitant about releasing new games. there's no profit in tunneling for them, and i think thats why they hesitate to release more LAN games. but there greed has kept them alive since 1987 (good or bad).

and lets not forget, nintendo has pushed back the release date for the next star fox, and i do wonder if its because they want to keep LAN, or even add online capibility (but very unilikely). but whatever the reason, they now know how many people want LAN and onine capibilities for the GCN.

well these are my therories, what do u think Question Question
 
Chile
rank 8
Posted:
Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:17 pm
quote : #3
profile : pm
Posts: 80
that would explain alot. nintendo is very greedy. i believe in the theory
 
Dark Slayer 5000
rank 10
Posted:
Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:29 pm
quote : #4
profile : pm
Posts: 139
You have to make money somehow. Nintendo just doesn't see any profit in online gaming, and that's why they don't want to do it. But still, they're not as bad as MS and Sony, and Nintendo still has an excellent fan base no matter what; that will always keep them alive. Very Happy
 
Zeiram_Wing
rank 7
Posted:
Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:58 pm
quote : #5
profile : pm
Posts: 59
Type: NTSC-U
I read somewhere that nintendo doesn't even give developers support, like drivers and very little documentation, for the bba and modem. and these games that do have lan were made by nintendo or 1st party developers right? so they would have all the resorces, while namco and other 3rd parties, may not.
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lordnikon
rank 47
Posted:
Sun Sep 12, 2004 8:39 pm
quote : #6
profile : pm
Posts: 1630
Type: NTSC-U/C
osx089 wrote:
but there greed has kept them alive since 1987 (good or bad).

Chile wrote:
...nintendo is very greedy. i believe in the theory...

It's not greed. It's called running a company so that you can pay yourself salary as well as all your employees. This is how any good business runs.

osx089 wrote:
but whatever the reason, they now know how many people want LAN and onine capibilities for the GCN.

Online gaming for consoles isn't profitable right now at all. Especially competing for that market. Sony and MS are losing a bundle of money right now fighting over online territory. If Nintendo were to get wrapped up in all of this, they would be losing a TON of money. They would have to advertise more and sink years of development and research time into making online games as well as gaming ideas that work well online. Plus planning, research on how to set up the infastructure. It would cost Nintendo a LOT of money. Nintendo knows 'some' people out there really want online and network capabilities. The fact is, most don't care about online capabilities.

Zeiram_Wing wrote:
I read somewhere that nintendo doesn't even give developers support, like drivers and very little documentation, for the bba and modem. and these games that do have lan were made by nintendo or 1st party developers right? so they would have all the resorces, while namco and other 3rd parties, may not.

Yep. Nintendo holds back on the network kits. Otherwise large 3rd party companies would have GC games online just like the PS2. EA and Ubisoft are vying for different pieces of the console online gaming pie. They would definatly integrate online functionalities if they had the kits to do so.

-

Nintendo is trying to control their company image. By not releasing more lan games and keeping kits away from developers they are staying out of the online race. It's saving them money. Is this greed? No it's called good business. Look what Sega did. The spent money wildly with disregard for the future. The took extreme gambles and in the end sacrificed everything they had to bring gamers the best gaming system ever. And look where it got them? Sega's now out of the hardware business for good.

Nintendo won't suffer the same fate because they have smart people running the company.
  _________________
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Belmont
rank 3
Posted:
Sun Sep 12, 2004 8:57 pm
quote : #7
profile : pm
Posts: 14
yeah.. i was looking forward to the gamecube online.. its a shame that they cant compete.......How popular are the gamecube LAN games with tunneling?
 
McRing_Ring
rank 38
Posted:
Sun Sep 12, 2004 9:02 pm
quote : #8
profile : pm
Posts: 877
I'm curious how ST got the network kit from Nintendo in the first place. I mean PSO wasn't THAT popular that Nintendo would want to have it.

It's and interesting theory though... I think that Nintendo doesn't want to make any more failures. Releasing a LAN game and it being tunneled would make people think the GC is fully online. That is something Nintendo doesn't want people to think however
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osx089
rank 7
Posted:
Mon Sep 13, 2004 2:27 pm
quote : #9
profile : pm
Posts: 52
i agree with you all about nintendo not wanting the gcn to be online. but i still hesitate a little when believeing that because nintendo did release a modem (56k) and an ethernet modem (LAN and Broadband). i don't think nintendo is stupid, but it would seem that way if they made all those modems and broadband adapters for only 5 games. but u never know.

and thank you lordnikon, greed was not the right word. but at the time, i couldn't think of another word, but i still stand by my statement though, nintendo has been around the longest so far, and its becuase of this great business practice.

yet, it is my opinion that you have to put your balls on the line sometimes.... for example: im thinking about buying an xbox, just for the online games. i have a ps2, but i want a wider viriety of games to play online. and nintendo right now has PSO 1, 2, and 3, and a bunch of LAN games that can be tunneld, but i don't tunnel cuz it doesn't work 4 me Sad. so nintendo losing money right there to the competition, even if i don't buy and xbox cuz i have a ps2 for playing online.

nintendo should think about people like me who want to play online and the casual gamer who may not want to play online. games that are both online and offline would sell because it appeals to both crowds. heck, look at all the players who play PSO and are just now getting online! they played both online and off. so there is money in that no matter which way you look at it.

what yall think about that Question
 
DarkLink
rank 25
Posted:
Tue Sep 14, 2004 8:15 am
quote : #10
profile : pm
Posts: 519
osx089 wrote:

nintendo should think about people like me who want to play online and the casual gamer who may not want to play online. games that are both online and offline would sell because it appeals to both crowds. heck, look at all the players who play PSO and are just now getting online! they played both online and off. so there is money in that no matter which way you look at it.

what yall think about that Question

I agree with you it would be I think a good strategy to market games with different things for offline play and online..sorta like PSO EP3. Maybe NIntendo doesn't see the future in that but in the long run it will make a difference I think. Very Happy
 
lordnikon
rank 47
Posted:
Thu Sep 23, 2004 12:26 am
quote : #11
profile : pm
Posts: 1630
Type: NTSC-U/C
I think nintendo should have atleast given the network kits to 3rd party developers and let them decide if they want to take a game online or not. Like sony did. Nintendo wouldn't have to get involved and it would have helped 3rd party developers sell more games. But I guess Nintendo wants autonomious control over how their console looks in the public eye, so much so that they would eradicate any traces of online gaming on the console. Thank god pso snuck in there, and sega and nintendo struck a deal.
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dwachill
rank 3
Posted:
Mon Jan 03, 2005 11:11 am
quote : #12
profile : pm
Posts: 19
Man, now i hate warp pipe. Imagen 16 player LAN for star fox. Even without online, i would buy 4 gamecubes just for that, there only 99 dollars anyways. Man i love star fox.
 
lordnikon
rank 47
Posted:
Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:53 am
quote : #13
profile : pm
Posts: 1630
Type: NTSC-U/C
dwachill wrote:
Man, now i hate warp pipe. Imagen 16 player LAN for star fox. Even without online, i would buy 4 gamecubes just for that, there only 99 dollars anyways. Man i love star fox.

Yep, I would have loved to setup a complete starfox multiplayer LAN setup. It would have ruled man. I mean its really not like "omfg warppipe is the enemy." If they hadn't done it, someone else would have. Multiple people actually did, they just got most of the press. So it was an inevitable situation that really couldn't have gone any other way. You can't take a game like Mario Kart, put in LAN, and not expect people to tunnel the game. So there was no stopping it. An unfortunate side effect was that by doing this it discouraged nintendo from implimenting it into future titles.
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lazybum
rank 10
Posted:
Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:28 am
quote : #14
profile : pm
Posts: 142
Type: NTSC-U/C
old topic i know, but damn I dont get this, how does letting third party companies decide to put lan in their games or not hurt nintendo? It would not cost them any money, and even for nintendo games i dont get how people tunneling lan games is bad for them. They dont have to pay for servers or anything, and if people tunnel the games they will be playing them for a long time which keeps that game franchise fresh in their memorym, so when the next chapter in the series comes out they would be more likely to buy it.
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gary_b
rank 9
Posted:
Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:41 pm
quote : #15
profile : pm
Posts: 122
Type: NTSC-U/C
lazybum wrote:
old topic i know, but damn I dont get this, how does letting third party companies decide to put lan in their games or not hurt nintendo? It would not cost them any money, and even for nintendo games i dont get how people tunneling lan games is bad for them. They dont have to pay for servers or anything, and if people tunnel the games they will be playing them for a long time which keeps that game franchise fresh in their memorym, so when the next chapter in the series comes out they would be more likely to buy it.
i agree with you. i think by nintendo doing this it only slowed software sales and GC sales. the people who wanted online either went to sony or microsoft. they should have at least let 3rd parties choose. i can't see how this would have hurt them in anyway.
 
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